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(reminder: all quotes here are fiddled, probably.)

法利賽人


倉海君, 為法利賽人辯護的重要性:

我認為Oral tradition及written Law 的對立,其實是表現在法利賽人和撒都該派的衝突之上,而非耶穌和法利賽人。耶穌本人和之後的基督教,其實深受以諾派猶太教 / 愛色尼派(Essenes)的影響,這才是耶穌跟法利賽人和撒都該人的根本分歧。耶穌批評法利賽人,並非針對其口述傳統,而是針對他們把律法放在日常生活時的錯誤應用。

事實上,法利賽人跟耶穌的關係比我們預期中親密,即使在福音書中,也記載了法利賽人邀請耶穌吃飯(例如Luke 7,36和11,37);耶穌跟法利賽人的思想也有很多相同之處,例如Rabbi Hillel也說過「己所不欲,勿施於人」(Cf. Luke 6,31),而Rabbi Shammai也說「良心比外在行為更重要」。可見耶穌批評的,並不是法利賽人對Torah本身的詮釋(即是否口傳的問題),而是他們在實踐上流於形式主義。最後我想強調,耶穌不滿的並非法利賽人,而是極端主義的、過份保守的法利賽人。

40 Comments:

:: Blogger 易亦 (02.06.07, 01:52   ) sagt...

同意先生所言

不過奈何現今不論基督教或天主教均全面地重蹈法利賽人在形式化上的覆轍。不論福音派或靈恩派都是一樣。只是方式不同而已。

雖然有少數人可以貫徹在生活上活出好見證。但都是鳳毛麟角。更多是沽名釣譽言行不一之輩。真的行道的一批絕對是低調歉虛之人。



:: Blogger Yun (02.06.07, 04:00   ) sagt...

耶穌責備的只是法利賽人假冒為善的行為。

可悲的是﹐今天許多信徒成為了昔日耶穌責備的對象也不自知。還以為自己很近神。(昔日的法利賽人又何曾不這樣想呢﹖)

不過﹐當然﹐不是每個法利賽人都是「壞」的。所以希望今天也有好的信徒。



:: Blogger sf (06.06.07, 02:18   ) sagt...

易亦小姐和小雲, 自命權威從來都是乞人憎. 如果迂付冬烘又愛意指氣使, 一個字, 煩.

不過看到你們留言的說話方式, 倒令我想到別的方面去.

天底下靚到絕和醜到絕的人只有很少, 大部分的都是普普通通的一般人, 七分面看有幾分姿色, 一轉角度又變成頭尖額窄.

極端/激進/熱心分子總是特別矚目的. 一千幾百人中只要幾個, 再加上點時勢配合, 就會像漫山片野淹至一般.

有時我也會想, 為甚麼大家老是那麼時運高, 老是碰上不順眼的基督徒, 碰上不快的遭遇?



:: Blogger Yun (06.06.07, 13:56   ) sagt...

只要遇著一個爛蘋果﹐就會對整蘿都怕怕。

其實耶穌時代的法利賽人只有人口的十分之一﹐而又不是個個都是假冒為善……

為甚麼大家老是那麼時運高﹐老是碰上不順眼的基督徒﹐碰上不快的遭遇?

這是個很好的問題。咁﹐我也是基督徒﹐所以碰上的機會應比較多吧。

But to be fair, I was once a "Pharisee" also. I think it's the church culture that breeds "Pharisees." That's why it's sad for me to see. But what do you do about it? Because I see the changes in myself, I do have hope for others to change.

先生﹐你是信徒嗎﹖



:: Blogger sf (07.06.07, 13:17   ) sagt...

yun, another reason, i think, is "projection", in psychological term.

btw, i am an anglican-methodist. my ex-boss once said that i look like a clergyman more than a christian :b



:: Blogger 易亦 (08.06.07, 17:06   ) sagt...

哈哈甚麼是聖公循道會(anglican-methodist)?我冇聽過佢地合併既消息喎!



:: Blogger sf (08.06.07, 18:10   ) sagt...

易亦好像甚麼都認識似的. 所謂anglican-methodist, 這樣講有道理的(自以為), 你真想聽的話, 吃完飯回家後再講. 好, 夠鐘放工, 閃!



:: Blogger Yun (09.06.07, 02:46   ) sagt...

哎呀先生﹐原來你老作丫! 等我仲以為我孤陋寡聞所以唔知原來有anglican-methodist
呢回事。(咁我又真係幾孤陋寡聞架!)

同埋﹐我對D派系又真係唔係搞得好清楚。



:: Anonymous 易亦 (09.06.07, 03:01   ) sagt...

oh! found the Anglican-Methodist Covenant on the internet la. but it's only what i'd call a 'formality'. it's not a real church bor.

雖然有d學校係用呢個聯合既名。
不過好似咁合併既教會就十劃都未有一撇。



:: Anonymous 易亦 (09.06.07, 03:04   ) sagt...

其他還請先生賜教。

小雲呀,可能我地真係孤陋寡聞呢。佢都唔係老作既。不過誇張左d遮。



:: Blogger sf (11.06.07, 02:20   ) sagt...

易亦和小雲, 你兩個一唱一和, 好夾啦下.

我是個methodist.只不過相當anglican而已.

methodism 是聖公宗的一支. methodist society (GB)之於anglican communion, 大概不過等於fransican order之於roman catholic church而已. 要不是當年的一些"office politics", 根本不會separate出來.

btw, 易亦提起anglican-methodist convenant, 就講多句. 英國循道會有個結, 暗地裡時時想回歸聖公宗. methodist的創始人wesley到死都不承認他所建立的methodist society是獨立宗派. 他遺囑所訂立的管理方案, 其說法用詞總有種臨時性的權宜味道, 不願觸及最敏感的主教制/使徒統緒問題.

問題一擱就是百多年, 1972年, 英國循道會和聖公會曾共同提出回歸(或合併)方案, 循道會總議會以超過三分二多數票通過, 只是在聖公會的general synod得不到三分二多數票. 碰了好幾次釘, 結果只好慢慢來, 弄出這個convenant, 由基層做起.

事實上, 兩會禮儀書, 經課表已經訂到幾乎一樣. 循道會按立牧師, 聖公會主教都會來"觀禮". 各地"唔聲唔聲地"設立共同的worship centre / ecumenical parish.

至於美國methodism, 那是另一個故事.

----

打了這一大堆, 我思疑其實你們有多少興趣看的.



:: Blogger 易亦 (11.06.07, 14:52   ) sagt...

too lazy to type chinese today...

well i'm interested to learn things that i donno. so your information is not bad for reference.

however, i don't see the difference between methodist and anglican. i've attended both churches (n a few more) and they are all the same to me.

i don't really care about the admin n organization. what really matter is whether one truly has a relationship with his/her God. At the end of the day, it is not which church u belong to gets you in heaven, but rather, whether you've believed and OBEY His words.

I think what Wesley was trying to tell the world was that he was not setting up new rules and regulations for church.

Since in his days, Anglican is the church that recognized by all the people, then he doesn't want to start a new branch/sect/denomination or whatever it may be called to avoid causing 分裂 splitting the church and or the believer. This is only to adhere to the teaching of the Bible.

Therefore the denomination doesn't really matter until it comes to the issue of doctrine. As long as the believe is in the Trinity and other basic doctrine, then I don't think believer should be divided by the denominations.

Love and unity is one of the great commands from the Lord tells us to build up His church Not admin and organization.



:: Blogger sf (11.06.07, 19:36   ) sagt...

易亦, 但係我唔識英文喎, 點算呀! 嗚嗚....

so it seems that here we have three christians, in a broad sense, i think.

易亦, i really love to talk to you and to know you more, because you always arouse me...(咳)...inspire me to write down what i am lazy to work out. :)

----

you know, that's why i say i sound like a clegyman more than a christian, for i really care about the liturgy and traditions passed to us through the one holy catholic apostolic church.

and i do care about the church's admin and organization, in a broad sense. religion is not something merely personal. if it is something that matters, it should have its social dimensions. the church is a society herself. and the way how the church is admin and organized is a illustration of how and to what degree it can hold the christian values/myths in practice in the real world.

methodist/anglican is only an abbr. and i thought you know what these abbr. means and by telling you these it may help to see how i understand a christian life.

----

btw, you are absoluately right about wesley. and your words remind us the saying of wesley about separating basic doctrines and opinions: know what's really important (my interpretation).



:: Blogger 易亦 (11.06.07, 20:25   ) sagt...

你個死野呀又話唔識英文?得戚得你呀!

其實如果有多餘精力
做clergyman又何妨?
反正都係為出於愛心進而為社會貢獻
唔好誤會我從冇嫌棄clergyman
而我亦對教會歷史有興趣

不過若然將focus放於外在形式而忽略/忽視主力培育內在靈性
(普世信徒及教會領袖既問題)
則縱然能說天使言語甚至貴為教宗亦不過係鳴鑼響鈸。一如當年法利賽人一樣外面係粉飾過的墳墓內裡卻充滿各種腐敗。而教會為何屢屢遭人唾罵就係因為虛有其表。

所以對我來說宗派實在沒有甚麼意義
能活出愛才是真正的教徒。首先做到這步再慢慢研究宗派歷史和其他都未遲。
否則把教會的名字抬出來只是沒有鹹味的鹽
等待被人踐踏

哈哈其實我都幾中意睇你寫野
因為你既題目將我平時唔會講個d都引晒出來。



:: Blogger Yun (12.06.07, 02:40   ) sagt...

你地丫…… 好惺惺相惜唧﹐我點插嘴啊。:P

(Okay, I'm lazy to type Chinese too... I type very slow ah...)

Just like 易亦, I'm also interested to know about things that I do not know. Because I'm so 孤陋寡聞。嗚……

I'm not sure if I had ever gone to denominational churches. (Maybe few times in a Baptist church.) I used to go to a non-denominational church (they emphasized that.) For the past few years, I have been attending an Alliance church (宣道會). So for me, I only identify myself as "Christian" if asked.

"religion is not something merely personal."

先生﹐it's interesting that you said that. Because I think nowadays, people are more stress on the fact that religion IS personal. I need to think more about that.

I'm an unconventional person. I do not like ceremonial procedures and traditions. (For reference, I did not go to my college graduation ceremony because I found it meaningless. And... I did go to a not bad university. Heh.) I often think I probably would feel constrained by attending church like Methodist, Lutherans, and such. But again, I had never tried before.

To be honest, I'm in a stage where I feel quite lost in my journey of faith. I like to be stimulated and be challenged that I do not just simply go to church or "serve" Christians; but also truly live out Jesus in my life. Which is very difficult, because most churches are very into their own bubbles.



:: Blogger 易亦 (12.06.07, 19:37   ) sagt...

小雲呀!有咩係雲插唔入架?

like you, i go to all types of church, wherever i can get close to God, i'll go.

if you are lost, perhaps we could organize a bible study class here in Mr.'s blog sharing our faith here. What do u say?



:: Blogger Yun (13.06.07, 05:04   ) sagt...

That sounds like a great idea. But where to start??



:: Blogger 七十樓危危下望 (13.06.07, 12:20   ) sagt...

> so it seems that here we have three christians, in a broad sense, i think

oh my
wait for me~


well, now you got me, the 4th



:: Blogger 易亦 (13.06.07, 17:10   ) sagt...

great to have u here 70. perhaps we can start by reading "our daily bread" and share our views n experience on the verses it quote everyday?

i know Mr. has a seperate blog for all those "catholic" passages, hehe, that is if he doesn't mind.

or alternatively, any of us can start a new blog on that. it won't be difficult.

so is Mr. going to join us here or we should go somewhere else?



:: Blogger sf (14.06.07, 02:06   ) sagt...

沒想到紫色頭竟然肯認做阿四喎. 呵呵.

小雲, 跟你一樣, 大學畢業禮我無意也沒有參加, 怕怕.

你並非unconventional, 現在還有多少人喜歡chanting. 至於宗派不宗派,和宗教社會性的問題, 且按下, 遲些再談.

至於bible study class, "our daily bread" 就不要了. 讓我們直接讀書卷吧. 嗯, 從簡單故事開始, 讀ruth吧. 道家講不生之生, 我們不要把它當神聖的經書來讀, 就當它是小說讀. 讀後再說說感受.

請眾同禱就不要碰它了. 另開一個也不好. 我把你們加進這裡, 就在這泊裡寫吧.

篤初誠美, 慎終宜令.

----

易亦和紫色頭, 你兩姐妹在70/F把我讓來讓去還不夠, 現在還要talk over my head, 算點先?



:: Blogger sf (14.06.07, 02:24   ) sagt...

小雲, 你不是信仰get lost, 你是感情get lost吧. 憂能傷身, 保重.



:: Blogger 易亦 (14.06.07, 10:37   ) sagt...

嘿嘿
先生我地幾時有將你讓來讓去呢?

或者你可以咁睇囉
我同70都係老子個套
不爭而無所不爭


你會唔會覺得舒服d呢?

不過又咁樣呀先生
你想我地係70/F爭你咩?
咁係要滿足你既虛榮心定咩呀?



:: Blogger Yun (14.06.07, 12:01   ) sagt...

先生﹐你要我點答你呢…… 多謝關心﹐我好努力咁保重緊身體架喇。

感情的迷失已成過去。不過迷失久了﹐有時突然有些不習慣清醒的日子。女人丫﹐有時就是有點犯賤架喇。(好好對待你的女人吧! ^^)

而信仰又真的很迷失。(一向都不喜歡把感情與信仰混為一談。) 不是對所信的那位﹐是對那些自稱愛他的人。我還未想到要怎樣走下去。我都好開心在這裡能找到一點stimulation。世事並非偶然。

The book of Ruth. Sure. It's one of my favorite books. :)



:: Blogger 七十樓危危下望 (14.06.07, 17:44   ) sagt...

姐姐:
> 不爭而無所不爭

errrrrrrrr
唔明

-.-.-.-.-
先生:
我係小四丫嘛

新屋 settled
幾時出黎
(係咪叫埋樹上果隻野架;又如果樹上果隻野其實真係一個大冬瓜,咁呢,就......)



:: Blogger sf (14.06.07, 18:01   ) sagt...

小雲, 不用講甚麼, 你終能找自己的幸福的. 快樂, 如常, 就好.

RUTH 咁我地開始讀囉喎, 下星期寫一段啦.

---

易亦啊易亦,
感君纏綿意,
繫在紅羅襦.
算啦,
我已經心有所屬.
我地係無可能架.

---

咪講左第D野先啦, 咁係咪寫架唧? 係就留個email啦.



:: Blogger 七十樓危危下望 (14.06.07, 18:43   ) sagt...

> 咪講左第D野先啦, 咁係咪寫架唧? 係就留個email啦.
 
同我講定同邊個講呀?
寫咩?



:: Blogger sf (14.06.07, 19:01   ) sagt...

紫頭四,

所謂 "不爭而無所不爭"呢
嘿!
我玻璃心水晶肚我就知點解喇
佢係話
瘦田無人耕
耕開有人爭


(衣d自大野唔知係邊個到學返黎既呢? 邊個呢?)

---

新屋 settled
終於可以慶祝下勒.
下星期一丫?

梗係叫埋樹上了歌啦.
我一個人
面對面
單對單
點接得住你個辣椒仔
D招丫.
真係呀
諗起都冒汗呀我.

如果樹上果隻野其實真係一個大冬瓜,咁呢你咪可以名正言順將佢個心D肉挖出來做冬瓜盅.而個殼呢,就日日掛住個係頭囉.

我只係諗, 唔知佢肯唔肯現真身唧. 不如加D甜頭丫. 啫呢, 如果佢一齊來, 我地就帶埋睡袋去你新居扮室內露營咁丫, 仲可以貼D熒光星星係天花板扮睇星喎.

(真係呢, 阿紫頭四一同我講幾句野, 我就眉飛色舞到呢.....唔得唔得, 要穩重D穩重D.)



:: Blogger sf (14.06.07, 19:28   ) sagt...

紫色頭, 真巧啊, 好像好耐世紀前講視像電話咁, 每次剛把留言post出去, 原來你已經又講左另一D野.

呢個同學好明顯無聽書. 易亦提議BIBLE STUDY丫嘛.



:: Blogger sf (15.06.07, 02:38   ) sagt...

小雲易亦紫色頭, 其實我地就寫每個星期主日讀經的經課感想, 可能更易做到.

另小雲, 你沒有看過飲者的泊? 你一定會有所啟迪.



:: Blogger Yun (15.06.07, 05:42   ) sagt...

aiya... Sunday sermons... I hadn't heard a good sermon for a long time. 好慘呀! :(

But I would love to hear (read) what you share.

飲者的泊... since you recommended, I will keep my eyes on it. You had mentioned him before, so I went there once.

又, how come you stayed up so late?! Haha! :P



:: Blogger Yam 飲者 (15.06.07, 09:47   ) sagt...

整!唔怪得眼眉跳到上頭頂,成日囉囉巒,原來船王無端端係度講我。
多謝錯愛,歡迎小雲光臨。



:: Blogger sf (15.06.07, 10:11   ) sagt...

小雲, 為甚麼這麼晚? 唔, 啫呢, 我夜馬馬都爬起身記掛住覆你留言丫麻.

我不是說sermon, 我是說經文. 即是說, 趁講道的時候, 唔理佢講咩, 自己有自己重讀當天讀經的章節. 所以佢亂歙仲好, 最怕佢講得四平八穩中中停停, 咁就無火. (我會唔會被人打呢? :b)

同埋, 你唔好諗住寫出來係share, 就當係總之記低自己諗過D咩野, 就夠咯.

飲者的泊, 我提議/鼓勵/恐嚇你把2004年全部睇一次.



:: Blogger sf (15.06.07, 11:13   ) sagt...

一講曹操, 曹操就到? 有無咁巧呀, 飲者?



:: Blogger Yun (15.06.07, 14:13   ) sagt...

嘩先生你食左蜜糖丫﹖把口好甜下喎。(係聞到。)

趁講道的時候, 唔理佢講咩

嘩笑死我咩﹗What a good idea! My mind was often in outer space during that time... :P (係﹐我諗你會被人打。)

一講曹操, 曹操就到? 有無咁巧呀, 飲者?

咁﹐我好聽話架嘛﹐先生你叫到﹐梗係click落去個link度囉﹐咁飲者實知架。

又﹐呢幾日來你度好頗撲(<--唔識寫)丫﹐你又出好多posts喎﹐(想學zz哩﹖人地丫﹐一日出6個丫﹗) 睇都睇唔切﹗



:: Blogger 七十樓危危下望 (15.06.07, 16:29   ) sagt...

好就星期一(18/6)

嘩我係咪就快被血洗部落呀
今個月
見好多網友喎
係咪大家都有感應 70/f 命不久矣
所以要向現實世界先見我一面呢?


地點同時間你定啦
丫我住西環
丫我唔會十二點先返屋企囉
丫嘿嘿嘿



:: Blogger sf (15.06.07, 19:00   ) sagt...

紫色頭,

好丫,
咁,
不如就你,
去西環食丫.
西環有咩好野食呢?
噫,
西環你熟喎,
有咩野提議呀?



:: Blogger 易亦 (15.06.07, 19:08   ) sagt...

幾點?邊度?



:: Blogger 七十樓危危下望 (15.06.07, 20:31   ) sagt...

呀哥
好似你遊走於9龍&3界架wor
你黎我到我驚唔識教你返屋企 wor

-.-.-.-.
姐姐
今次要劈冬瓜搳冬瓜茸
好血腥架wor



:: Blogger 易亦 (16.06.07, 10:07   ) sagt...

咁就要見識下喇
哈哈我十指不沾陽春水

不過近來比較忙
時間上...



:: Blogger sf (17.06.07, 02:38   ) sagt...

(易亦, 拿偷偷地同你講丫, O者呢, 拜託拜託, 請你食麥當奴丫: 你明嫁啦. sh......)



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